From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Tue Mar 16 13:06:43 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:06:43 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Dates for Bobbing Court Message-ID: <201003161306.43161.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> I have been going through everything I have, putting it on my family tree on Legacy. Along the way, I found this in a letter from Joan McEwing: "Its lifetime was 1648-1705, when it was burnt down to just a few parts and the gateway, walls and a few bits of the old building are still there." She doesn't quote any authority. I haven't yet looked at Margaret Osborne's letter, but my recollection is that the current occupier had very little knowledge of the original building. Unfortunately Halsted's book, which mentions William building a new house at Keys Street, took 10 or 20 years to write, and he started the second edition before the first was published (although it was only waiting on some images.) The date when William moved there could be any time in that span. She further asserts that Titus Oates lived there. He was certainly Vicar of Bobbing, but without more, I would assume that he lived at the vicarage. Bobbing was a manor, with a lot of individual farmers, as the Rates Assessment shows. They didn't all have rooms at the manor-house. Until I saw the headstone transcription Francis Musto found, I was prepared to accept that William lived somewhere else, just as a farmer today has paddocks in various locations. Doug. From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Wed Mar 17 19:59:24 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:59:24 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] The proposed book Message-ID: <201003171959.24594.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> I think that I wrote once before that writing a book has become a real effort for me. My short-term recollection is about 30 seconds. This morning, I bought and paid for the newspaper, enquired about something else, and couldn't recall whether I had paid or not. I can look at what I have written, or at anything in print, and not take it in. That makes things very difficult. Even writing a page or a paragraph a day needs some idea of how it all fits together. They tell me that this is not dementia, but is all due to depression. Before Christmas, I was feeling confident enough to take on an extra responsibility here at this Village. Since then, the depression hasn't let up. For anybody who believes in moon cycles, my depression has an approximate lunar cycle, but it is worst around new moon, not full moon. I definitely have a rhythm, but I treat the Moon as simply a clock or calendar. Who knows? Anyway, New Moon was 1.5 days ago as I write. Things can only get better! I can understand William and his brothers getting drunk. Drinking has a blotting-out effect. Unfortunately, my medication interacts with alcohol and it simply keeps me awake. Emotionally, I can express emotion, but I still feel isolated. My doctor has just about run out of ideas and is talking about mercury poisoning from having a mouthful of fillings. I have to take a test to see if I can actually utilise a vitamin, or if it is simply circulating ineffectually. Apparently I am one of only 3 patients she has who haven't responded to treatment. She had a vision of finding the key and being the salvation of the whole Boykett clan. For a while, we were making definite progress. Progress is never straightforward; there is always backsliding. Perhaps I am in one of those phases. Fortunately, I am not the suicidal type. At the moment, I am trying to get all the little snippets of data into some order, on a record for each individual. That would be the first step anyway, and is my short-term goal. If I can achieve that, most of the work is done. Doug. From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Thu Mar 18 11:27:26 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:27:26 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] The proposed book In-Reply-To: <201003171959.24594.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> References: <201003171959.24594.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: <201003181127.26195.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> My apologies for my outburst. This is the second time that an explanation has turned into a cry of pain. I should have waited a fortnight. I have watched a woman here gradually succumb to dementia. If that was my problem, I wouldn't be able to write this. Living among such people is not the ideal surrounding for anybody with depression. Many "family histories" are nothing but a program's narrative report with a cover. Given a bit of time, I can certainly produce that, but it won't be very readable. There aren't a lot of photos, except of people. Graham Jaunay http://www.jaunay.com/publishing.html has co-authored some books, and he is in Adelaide, which is another advantage. For a good description of how to do a quality job, have a look at http://www.familychronicle.com/fitzhugh.htm He had an ancestor who was apprenticed to a Livery Company, just as William's marriage settlement was of houses leased from a Livery company. Like him, I need to explain what they were. The Poor Law was administered by the churchwardens. Paying the Church Rate was seen by Nonconformists as putting money in another church's offering plate, but in reality, it was more like a council rate as well. I need to explain at least some of that. An earlier draft (and it won't have changed much) is still available to read or download at http://www.douglaidlaw.net/boykett/boykettbook.pdf By now, Google has probably archived it. I don't like it - it is too slow and pedantic. But is anybody really interested? I got one response to last night's post. There is a core of people who have done research, and we are all getting older. A family reunion would be a waste of time. I get the feeling that genealogy has had its day, and because Australia is so young, we don't have the sense of history that even the Americans have. The important thing is to organize the data in retrievable form. That is another challenge - classifying a box full of documents so they can be retrieved easily. I started to put them on a computer archive, but the program I chose no longer works. As I said last night, I propose to put relevant data from every document onto a family tree file. Facts that don't attach to a particular individual can be the subject of separate memos. I am not looking beyond that at the present time. I attended a reunion for my wife's Stinson ancestors. A family member stood up and proposed to put the whole family history on CD. When I followed him up, he had left his place of business and the present people had no idea where he was. I hope that I will always be contactable. Doug. On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:59:24 pm Doug Laidlaw wrote: > I think that I wrote once before that writing a book has become a real > effort for me. > > My short-term recollection is about 30 seconds. This morning, I bought > and paid for the newspaper, enquired about something else, and couldn't > recall whether I had paid or not. I can look at what I have written, or > at anything in print, and not take it in. That makes things very > difficult. Even writing a page or a paragraph a day needs some idea of > how it all fits together. > > They tell me that this is not dementia, but is all due to depression. > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Thu Mar 18 12:04:50 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:04:50 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] William Boykett of Boobbing's parents (perhaps)? In-Reply-To: <200911292013.35980.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> References: <200911292013.35980.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: <201003181204.50183.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> The Canterbury Archivist's Office has now replied to the effect that their genealogical researcher has retired, and they are unable to do the lookup for me. I would need to engage a professional researcher. They have given me a list of researchers who cover Kent. Doug. On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 08:13:35 pm Doug Laidlaw wrote: > I don't want to do a Joan McEwing here :) > > Francis Musto is descended from Frank Boykett, the Vicar of Ruddington, a > son of Thomas' elder brother Charles. On the back of his family tree is > written: > > "In memory of John and Sarah Boykett of Bobbing Court. Sarah the wife of > John died the 23rd of Feb 1780 in the 72nd year of her age. John Boykett > died 7th March 1785 aged 70 years. Blessed are they which die in the Lord. > Also James the son of William and Mary Boykett died the 22nd April 1789 > aged 13 months. Edwin Boykett died 16th January 1791 aged 9 months." > > James was the twin of John, who went on to become a schoolmaster. That > John married twice, and both wives were called Sarah, just to confuse > things further. Edwin is another son that I have put on the tree, but his > birth is not listed, only his burial, and his parents' names are not > given. Perhaps he died before he could be baptised. The archivist has > listed all the Boyketts for the period. > > Since John and Sarah Boykett were "of Bobbing Court" it is reasonable to > assume that they were the parents of William the Bobbing landowner. He was > born in about 1750, since he was 30 when he married. Are they identical > with the John Boykett and Sarah Hearne, who are mentioned in the > Canterbury archives as having married at Milton on 8 February, 1743? We > suspect that the Boykett who repaired the church was that one. At the > moment, this is only a guess, but it can be made to fit. Then again, many > coincidences can be made to fit. > > In 1743, John would have been about 28, and Sarah would have been about 36. > They did have a child William, their eldest, baptised on 29 May, 1744. In > 1780, when the William we know married Mary Hutton, he would have been 36 > or older. The archivist was of opinion that 36 is so different from 30 > that he can't be the same person. But the only authority for his age in > 1780 is the marriage licence, where his age is given as 30 then. The > licence would have been handwritten, and perhaps there was confusion > between a 0 and a 6. The archivist searched for baptisms between 1745 and > 1755 and found none. Was the husband perhaps born just before 1745? Other > searches from 1743 to 1791 found nobody more likely. > > As I said, it is only a hypothesis. > > Doug. > > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Thu Mar 18 21:40:18 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:40:18 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Book - new draft uploaded Message-ID: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> I have just replaced the draft book at http://www.douglaidlaw.net/boykett/boykettbook.pdf with the latest version from my computer. It is 30 KB bigger, but it is so long since I have looked at it, that I am not sure what the additions are. Doug. From highfieldm at msn.com Thu Mar 18 22:23:23 2010 From: highfieldm at msn.com (highfieldm at msn.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:23:23 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded In-Reply-To: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: Dear Doug, I just wanted to let you know that even though I am very busy with my studies right now and have therefore regrettably been unable to do justice to all your fantastic work on the Boykett family history - I very much appreciate all you are doing and I'm sure that not only now but in every generation to come, there are and always will be many others who appreciate all you are doing for all of us Boykett descendants! It has been predicted that sometime in the not too far distant future, about 1 in every 20 Australians will be descended from 1 woman who arrived with the 1st Fleet and had 14 children - and i think this gives an idea of what will continue to happen to the Boykett clan - our lines will merge with so many other families, so our history will become their history too! In other words, your work will touch countless Australian lives! Take care of yourself , Doug, all the best and good luck with your work - I'm sure your book will be fantastic and highly treasured by family near and far. Warm regards, Meredith Highfield (nee Guster, daughter of Ann nee Boykett) Sent from my iPhone On 18 mars 2010, at 09:40 PM, Doug Laidlaw wrote: > I have just replaced the draft book at > http://www.douglaidlaw.net/boykett/boykettbook.pdf with the latest > version > from my computer. It is 30 KB bigger, but it is so long since I > have looked > at it, that I am not sure what the additions are. > > Doug. > > _______________________________________________ > boykett-announce mailing list > boykett-announce at douglaidlaw.net > http://douglaidlaw.net/mailman/listinfo/boykett-announce_douglaidlaw.net > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Thu Mar 18 23:48:22 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:48:22 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded In-Reply-To: References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: <201003182348.23003.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Thanks Meredith. It is just a nuisance that I had to inherit depression from the Boyketts as well. It could have been worse. My grandmother Esther nee Boykett born 1889 married a hemophiliac. I remember his fearful nosebleeds. Their son, who would have been free of it, was killed in a MCA at 21. The condition passed through two generations of females and was first diagnosed in my sister's son. (Then they found that it was all documented at the Alfred Hospital Prahran, and nobody had been told.) He has to take extra precautions for dentistry, even. His sister, who is a carrier and married recently, is taking some kind of treatment before getting pregnant. And that completely bypassed me, with my three daughters! My brother, who underwent major surgery at 8, apparently missed out as well. He had two girls. With a mother who was a carrier, we each stood a 50/50 chance. Doug. On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:23:23 pm highfieldm at msn.com wrote: > Dear Doug, > I just wanted to let you know that even though I am very busy with my > studies right now and have therefore regrettably been unable to do > justice to all your fantastic work on the Boykett family history - I > very much appreciate all you are doing and I'm sure that not only now > but in every generation to come, there are and always will be many > others who appreciate all you are doing for all of us Boykett > descendants! > > It has been predicted that sometime in the not too far distant future, > about 1 in every 20 Australians will be descended from 1 woman who > arrived with the 1st Fleet and had 14 children - and i think this > gives an idea of what will continue to happen to the Boykett clan - > our lines will merge with so many other families, so our history will > become their history too! > > In other words, your work will touch countless Australian lives! > > Take care of yourself , Doug, all the best and good luck with your > work - I'm sure your book will be fantastic and highly treasured by > family near and far. > Warm regards, > Meredith Highfield (nee Guster, daughter of Ann nee Boykett) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 18 mars 2010, at 09:40 PM, Doug Laidlaw > > wrote: > > I have just replaced the draft book at > > http://www.douglaidlaw.net/boykett/boykettbook.pdf with the latest > > version > > from my computer. It is 30 KB bigger, but it is so long since I > > have looked > > at it, that I am not sure what the additions are. > > > > Doug. > > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Fri Mar 19 00:34:07 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 00:34:07 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded In-Reply-To: References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: <201003190034.07975.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:23:23 pm highfieldm at msn.com wrote: > It has been predicted that sometime in the not too far distant future, > about 1 in every 20 Australians will be descended from 1 woman who > arrived with the 1st Fleet and had 14 children > Which one? My wife is directly descended from Ferdinand Meurant, who was of course a Frenchman. He escaped from the French Revolution to Ireland, forged Bank of Ireland notes, and was transported to NSW. His wife petitioned to be allowed to come too, but was refused. He had quite a few children here. He formed a liaison with another convict, then ditched her and their two children (the son went to New Zealand, became high in the Government and married "a Maori princess.") and married "properly" in Parramatta Church. They had seven children. One of the daughters of the marriage was my wife's ancestor. Ferdinand was a jeweller. He made a necklace for Governor King's wife, which earned him a free pardon and a land grant. He was one of the only two jewellers in early Sydney. There is a plaque in the pavement outside his shop (in Eden Street, from memory or a name something like that.) We were in Sydney about a month ago. We didn't see the plaque, but at the PowerHouse Museum we did see a snuff-box he made, described at http://about.nsw.gov.au/collections/doc/87882-snuff-box-turbo-shell-gold- attributed-to-ferdinand-meurant-s/ (watch that linewrap.) Apparently the customer picked up the shell in his sea wanderings, and asked F.M. to make it into a snuffbox. There is a photo on the Museum's site at http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/collection/database/?irn=79059 That is the kind of thing I would like to put in the Boykett book. Does anybody still have one of John's threepences with the Lord's Prayer? We have a woman here in this Village who claims descent from Mary Reiby, whose portrait is on the $20 note. With her and (previously) two sisters of Margaret Osborne, who went to Bobbing Court, we have only the best people here! Returning to your statement, it seems a bit odd in view of the many immigrants there have been in the meantime, but it could be right. I know of one path between my wife and myself. The statement I read elsewhere, that everybody in the world is related to every other by no more than 7 family tree steps - up, down or collateral - seems unsustainable. Completely OT, I have been wondering if drink took Thomas out of circulation for the final two years. We shall never know. Doug. From Highfieldfamily at msn.com Sat Mar 20 17:51:37 2010 From: Highfieldfamily at msn.com (Highfield Family) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:51:37 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] FAMILY TREES, HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded In-Reply-To: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> <201003182348.23003.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> <201003182348.23003.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: Hi Doug - just to let you know that there's no way your work is lost on younger generations - my niece (who is only 18), replied to me immediately saying she'd love to read your book when it's finished! Re every 2 humans being separated by only a maximum of 7 family tree steps - yes, there is very strong (in fact virtually indisputable) evidence that this is absolutely sustainable: (1) by extrapolating from the logic and experience of tracing back any 2 families chosen at random and eventually finding their common ancestry (e.g. the way the popular mags trace back the families of many American movie stars and find their links to British/European nobility!) (2) from the further logic of constantly exploding world population and the fact that every single one of us is obviously descended from a much much smaller number of individuals (3) more recently from the genetic knowledge, surname projects and databases which are absolutely exploding! (It's now possible for 2 people with the same surname to have their DNA tested to find out if they are related. It's also possible, at least in the US, for males who have been adopted or say African-Americans who have a white ancestor, to find out by DNA testing what is the surname of people who are related to them; their sisters/female relatives will thus have an answer as well) You may find it interesting to trawl through the National Geographic's Genographic project website - hours and hours of fascinating info there! https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html You'll see that genetic studies have shown that everyone alive today (not everyone who has ever lived - some family lines died out long before the present day) is descended from an African man and woman - the "scientific Adam" (lived about 60,000 years ago) and "scientific Eve" (lived about 150-200,000 years ago). Of course they were not the only individuals alive at the time (though the numbers of others were NOT great!) but their lines were the only ones which carried through continuously to migrate to different parts of the globe and give rise to everyone alive today. (ie all today's male lines trace back to that one man, and all today's females lines trace back to that one woman). There have since been mutations at different times and in different locations, which produced the different "haplogroups" - we all belong to one of these haplogroups. The African !San Bushmen are the people whose DNA most closely resembles that of our earliest ancestors, and much evidence points to "click" languages as being representative of the very first organised languages. I had my mitochondrial DNA analysed a few years ago by the NG project, and my female line is subgroup T2 of Haplogroup T. I'll put some info about them below: If you or a male relative were to submit a sample to the NG Genographic Project (I think this NG project has now started up in Australia - I just sent for the kit by mail at the time I participated in it) , you could trace back the Y-chromosome of the Boykett male line to find where it first originated - or other people with the same or similar surname could also find out if they are related (or if your Laidlaws have common ancestry with my grandmother's Laidlaws!)! Have fun reading the National Geographic site! MH P.S. By the way, further to your mention of hemophilia - you may find your family has a haemochromatosis (iron overload) gene, which can cause liver problems (and much higher susceptibility to even the smallest amount of alcohol - might have affected those Boykett drinkers!), mood problems and heart problems - because I have 2 copies of versions of this gene, one weak and rare (H63D) and one stronger and common (C282Y). (I don't have any symptoms and probably won't). I don't know which one came from which parent, or whether mum's copy came from the Boyketts or from her mother's family, but these genes are very common in people of Celtic ancestry and it is not unusual for two carriers to marry, and produce children who may have 2 copies and therefore potentially have symptoms (females much later than males because menstruation delays onset). This condition has been deadly to many as it was unrecognised (e.g. as described in the book "The Bronze Killer") and is still very underdiagnosed - but at the same time there are people walking around with 1 or even 2 copies of the gene who will never have any symptoms - its expression is very variable and probably depends on other genetic factors that people have. Treatment is venesection (blood-taking - eligible people can donate to Red Cross) to reduce the iron load in the blood - a blunt weapon but effective. PPS. Info about Mitochondrial Haplotype T: "The mitochondrial Haplogroup T is best characterized as a European lineage. With an origin in the Near East greater than 45,000 years ago, the major sub-lineages of Haplogroup T entered Europe around the time of the Neolithic 10,000 years ago. Once in Europe, these sub-lineages underwent a dramatic expansion associated with the arrival of agriculture in Europe. Today, we find Haplogroup T*, the root Haplogroup for Haplogroup T, widely distributed in Europe." About subclade T1 they write: "The origin of Haplogroup T1 dates to at least 6,000 years ago, and today, we find Haplogroup T1 distributed in populations living in southeast, central, and northwestern Europe." Regarding subclade T2: "Haplogroup T2 is one of the older sub-lineages and may have been present in Europe as early as the Late Upper Palaeolithic." Haplogroup T is currently found with high concentrations around the eastern Baltic Sea. According to Oxford Ancestors, Haplogroup T "includes slightly fewer than 10% of modern Europeans. Its many branches are widely distributed throughout southern and western Europe with particularly high concentrations in Ireland and the west of Britain."[2] According to the Genographic Project: "Haplogroup T has a very wide distribution, and is present as far east as the Indus Valley bordering India and Pakistan and as far south as the Arabian peninsula. It is also common in eastern and northern Europe." [3] Early agriculturalists and pastoralists The Genographic Project states that early people with Haplogroup T were likely some of the first organized agriculturalists and pastoralists, and that they probably comprised the group which first brought settled agriculture and pastoralism on to the European continent, bringing the "Neolithic Revolution" to Europe; they write: "Although the haplogroup was present during the early and middle Upper Paleolithic, [Haplogroup] T is generally considered one of the main genetic signatures of the Neolithic expansions. While groups of hunter-gatherers and subsistence fishermen had been occupying much of Eurasia for tens of thousands of years, around ten thousand years ago a group of modern humans living in the Fertile Crescent-present day eastern Turkey and northern Syria-began domesticating the plants, nuts, and seeds they had been collecting. What resulted were the world's first agriculturalists, and this new cultural era is typically referred to as the Neolithic. Groups of individuals able to support larger populations with this reliable food source began migrating out of the Middle East, bringing their new technology with them. By then, humans had already settled much of the surrounding areas, but this new agricultural technology proved too successful to ignore, and the surrounding groups quickly copied these new immigrants. Interesting, DNA data indicate that while these new agriculturalists were incredibly successful at planting their technology in the surrounding groups, they were far less successful at planting their own genetic seed. Agriculture was quickly and widely adopted, but the lineages carried by these Neolithic expansions are found at frequencies seldom greater than 20 percent in Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia." [3] -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Laidlaw" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:48 PM To: Subject: Re: [Boykett-announce] Boykett Family History - Appreciation forDoug Re: Book - new draft uploaded > Thanks Meredith. It is just a nuisance that I had to inherit depression from > the Boyketts as well. > > It could have been worse. My grandmother Esther nee Boykett born 1889 married > a hemophiliac. I remember his fearful nosebleeds. Their son, who would have > been free of it, was killed in a MCA at 21. The condition passed through two > generations of females and was first diagnosed in my sister's son. (Then they > found that it was all documented at the Alfred Hospital Prahran, and nobody > had been told.) He has to take extra precautions for dentistry, even. His > sister, who is a carrier and married recently, is taking some kind of > treatment before getting pregnant. > > And that completely bypassed me, with my three daughters! My brother, who > underwent major surgery at 8, apparently missed out as well. He had two > girls. With a mother who was a carrier, we each stood a 50/50 chance. > > Doug. > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:23:23 pm highfieldm at msn.com wrote: >> Dear Doug, >> I just wanted to let you know that even though I am very busy with my >> studies right now and have therefore regrettably been unable to do >> justice to all your fantastic work on the Boykett family history - I >> very much appreciate all you are doing and I'm sure that not only now >> but in every generation to come, there are and always will be many >> others who appreciate all you are doing for all of us Boykett >> descendants! >> >> It has been predicted that sometime in the not too far distant future, >> about 1 in every 20 Australians will be descended from 1 woman who >> arrived with the 1st Fleet and had 14 children - and i think this >> gives an idea of what will continue to happen to the Boykett clan - >> our lines will merge with so many other families, so our history will >> become their history too! >> >> In other words, your work will touch countless Australian lives! >> >> Take care of yourself , Doug, all the best and good luck with your >> work - I'm sure your book will be fantastic and highly treasured by >> family near and far. >> Warm regards, >> Meredith Highfield (nee Guster, daughter of Ann nee Boykett) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 18 mars 2010, at 09:40 PM, Doug Laidlaw >> >> wrote: >> > I have just replaced the draft book at >> > http://www.douglaidlaw.net/boykett/boykettbook.pdf with the latest >> > version >> > from my computer. It is 30 KB bigger, but it is so long since I >> > have looked >> > at it, that I am not sure what the additions are. >> > >> > Doug. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > boykett-announce mailing list > boykett-announce at douglaidlaw.net > http://douglaidlaw.net/mailman/listinfo/boykett-announce_douglaidlaw.net > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Sat Mar 20 18:51:41 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:51:41 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] FAMILY TREES, HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded In-Reply-To: References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> <201003182348.23003.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: <201003201851.41692.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Thanks Meredith. BTW, would you (and others) please make the List address your only To: address and all others CC. ? When you have multiple To: addresses, I have to go up as admin and let you in. I don't know how other Mailman lists are configured, but your method isn't uncommon. Last night we watched the television documentary showing how the Australian Aborigines are ultimately descended from Africans. It was only the 7 steps I was querying. That would be exceeded within a few generations. As I understood the original, they weren't saying that we could go up 7 generations and down another 7, but the total path length was no more than 7 steps. Even counting siblings as one step and not two, I doubt if there would be enough possibilities. Doug. On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 05:51:37 pm Highfield Family wrote: > Hi Doug - just to let you know that there's no way your work is lost on > younger generations - my niece (who is only 18), replied to me immediately > saying she'd love to read your book when it's finished! > > Re every 2 humans being separated by only a maximum of 7 family tree steps > - yes, there is very strong (in fact virtually indisputable) evidence that > this is absolutely sustainable: > > (1) by extrapolating from the logic and experience of tracing back any 2 > families chosen at random and eventually finding their common ancestry > (e.g. the way the popular mags trace back the families of many American > movie stars and find their links to British/European nobility!) > > (2) from the further logic of constantly exploding world population and > the fact that every single one of us is obviously descended from a much > much smaller number of individuals > > (3) more recently from the genetic knowledge, surname projects and > databases which are absolutely exploding! (It's now possible for 2 people > with the same surname to have their DNA tested to find out if they are > related. It's also possible, at least in the US, for males who have been > adopted or say African-Americans who have a white ancestor, to find out by > DNA testing what is the surname of people who are related to them; their > sisters/female relatives will thus have an answer as well) > > You may find it interesting to trawl through the National Geographic's > Genographic project website - hours and hours of fascinating info there! > https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html > > You'll see that genetic studies have shown that everyone alive today (not > everyone who has ever lived - some family lines died out long before the > present day) is descended from an African man and woman - the "scientific > Adam" (lived about 60,000 years ago) and "scientific Eve" (lived about > 150-200,000 years ago). Of course they were not the only individuals alive > at the time (though the numbers of others were NOT great!) but their lines > were the only ones which carried through continuously to migrate to > different parts of the globe and give rise to everyone alive today. (ie > all today's male lines trace back to that one man, and all today's females > lines trace back to that one woman). There have since been mutations at > different times and in different locations, which produced the different > "haplogroups" - we all belong to one of these haplogroups. The African > !San Bushmen are the people whose DNA most closely resembles that of our > earliest ancestors, and much evidence points to "click" languages as being > representative of the very first organised languages. > > I had my mitochondrial DNA analysed a few years ago by the NG project, and > my female line is subgroup T2 of Haplogroup T. I'll put some info about > them below: > > If you or a male relative were to submit a sample to the NG Genographic > Project (I think this NG project has now started up in Australia - I just > sent for the kit by mail at the time I participated in it) , you could > trace back the Y-chromosome of the Boykett male line to find where it > first originated - or other people with the same or similar surname could > also find out if they are related (or if your Laidlaws have common > ancestry with my grandmother's Laidlaws!)! > > Have fun reading the National Geographic site! > > MH > > > P.S. By the way, further to your mention of hemophilia - you may find your > family has a haemochromatosis (iron overload) gene, which can cause liver > problems (and much higher susceptibility to even the smallest amount of > alcohol - might have affected those Boykett drinkers!), mood problems and > heart problems - because I have 2 copies of versions of this gene, one > weak and rare (H63D) and one stronger and common (C282Y). (I don't have > any symptoms and probably won't). I don't know which one came from which > parent, or whether mum's copy came from the Boyketts or from her mother's > family, but these genes are very common in people of Celtic ancestry and > it is not unusual for two carriers to marry, and produce children who may > have 2 copies and therefore potentially have symptoms (females much later > than males because menstruation delays onset). This condition has been > deadly to many as it was unrecognised (e.g. as described in the book "The > Bronze Killer") and is still very underdiagnosed - but at the same time > there are people walking around with 1 or even 2 copies of the gene who > will never have any symptoms - its expression is very variable and > probably depends on other genetic factors that people have. Treatment is > venesection (blood-taking - eligible people can donate to Red Cross) to > reduce the iron load in the blood - a blunt weapon but effective. > > PPS. Info about Mitochondrial Haplotype T: > > > "The mitochondrial Haplogroup T is best characterized as a European > lineage. With an origin in the Near East greater than 45,000 years ago, > the major sub-lineages of Haplogroup T entered Europe around the time of > the Neolithic 10,000 years ago. Once in Europe, these sub-lineages > underwent a dramatic expansion associated with the arrival of agriculture > in Europe. Today, we find Haplogroup T*, the root Haplogroup for > Haplogroup T, widely distributed in Europe." > > About subclade T1 they write: "The origin of Haplogroup T1 dates to at > least 6,000 years ago, and today, we find Haplogroup T1 distributed in > populations living in southeast, central, and northwestern Europe." > > Regarding subclade T2: "Haplogroup T2 is one of the older sub-lineages and > may have been present in Europe as early as the Late Upper Palaeolithic." > > Haplogroup T is currently found with high concentrations around the eastern > Baltic Sea. According to Oxford Ancestors, Haplogroup T "includes slightly > fewer than 10% of modern Europeans. Its many branches are widely > distributed throughout southern and western Europe with particularly high > concentrations in Ireland and the west of Britain."[2] According to the > Genographic Project: "Haplogroup T has a very wide distribution, and is > present as far east as the Indus Valley bordering India and Pakistan and > as far south as the Arabian peninsula. It is also common in eastern and > northern Europe." [3] > > > > Early agriculturalists and pastoralists > The Genographic Project states that early people with Haplogroup T were > likely some of the first organized agriculturalists and pastoralists, and > that they probably comprised the group which first brought settled > agriculture and pastoralism on to the European continent, bringing the > "Neolithic Revolution" to Europe; they write: "Although the haplogroup was > present during the early and middle Upper Paleolithic, [Haplogroup] T is > generally considered one of the main genetic signatures of the Neolithic > expansions. While groups of hunter-gatherers and subsistence fishermen had > been occupying much of Eurasia for tens of thousands of years, around ten > thousand years ago a group of modern humans living in the Fertile > Crescent-present day eastern Turkey and northern Syria-began domesticating > the plants, nuts, and seeds they had been collecting. What resulted were > the world's first agriculturalists, and this new cultural era is typically > referred to as the Neolithic. Groups of individuals able to support larger > populations with this reliable food source began migrating out of the > Middle East, bringing their new technology with them. By then, humans had > already settled much of the surrounding areas, but this new agricultural > technology proved too successful to ignore, and the surrounding groups > quickly copied these new immigrants. Interesting, DNA data indicate that > while these new agriculturalists were incredibly successful at planting > their technology in the surrounding groups, they were far less successful > at planting their own genetic seed. Agriculture was quickly and widely > adopted, but the lineages carried by these Neolithic expansions are found > at frequencies seldom greater than 20 percent in Europe, the Middle East, > and Central Asia." [3] > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Doug Laidlaw" > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:48 PM > To: > Subject: Re: [Boykett-announce] Boykett Family History - Appreciation > forDoug Re: Book - new draft uploaded > > > Thanks Meredith. It is just a nuisance that I had to inherit depression > > from the Boyketts as well. > > > > It could have been worse. My grandmother Esther nee Boykett born 1889 > > married a hemophiliac. I remember his fearful nosebleeds. Their son, > > who would have been free of it, was killed in a MCA at 21. The condition > > passed through two generations of females and was first diagnosed in my > > sister's son. (Then they found that it was all documented at the Alfred > > Hospital Prahran, and nobody had been told.) He has to take extra > > precautions for dentistry, even. His sister, who is a carrier and > > married recently, is taking some kind of treatment before getting > > pregnant. > > > > And that completely bypassed me, with my three daughters! My brother, > > who underwent major surgery at 8, apparently missed out as well. He had > > two girls. With a mother who was a carrier, we each stood a 50/50 > > chance. > > > > Doug. > > > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:23:23 pm highfieldm at msn.com wrote: > >> Dear Doug, > >> I just wanted to let you know that even though I am very busy with my > >> studies right now and have therefore regrettably been unable to do > >> justice to all your fantastic work on the Boykett family history - I > >> very much appreciate all you are doing and I'm sure that not only now > >> but in every generation to come, there are and always will be many > >> others who appreciate all you are doing for all of us Boykett > >> descendants! > >> > >> It has been predicted that sometime in the not too far distant future, > >> about 1 in every 20 Australians will be descended from 1 woman who > >> arrived with the 1st Fleet and had 14 children - and i think this > >> gives an idea of what will continue to happen to the Boykett clan - > >> our lines will merge with so many other families, so our history will > >> become their history too! > >> > >> In other words, your work will touch countless Australian lives! > >> > >> Take care of yourself , Doug, all the best and good luck with your > >> work - I'm sure your book will be fantastic and highly treasured by > >> family near and far. > >> Warm regards, > >> Meredith Highfield (nee Guster, daughter of Ann nee Boykett) > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On 18 mars 2010, at 09:40 PM, Doug Laidlaw > >> > >> wrote: > >> > I have just replaced the draft book at > >> > http://www.douglaidlaw.net/boykett/boykettbook.pdf with the latest > >> > version > >> > from my computer. It is 30 KB bigger, but it is so long since I > >> > have looked > >> > at it, that I am not sure what the additions are. > >> > > >> > Doug. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > boykett-announce mailing list > > boykett-announce at douglaidlaw.net > > http://douglaidlaw.net/mailman/listinfo/boykett-announce_douglaidlaw.net > > !DSPAM:4ba4797444751025641944! > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Sat Mar 20 19:08:20 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:08:20 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] FAMILY TREES, HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded In-Reply-To: <201003201851.41692.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> <201003201851.41692.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: <201003201908.20953.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:51:41 pm Doug Laidlaw wrote: > Thanks Meredith. BTW, would you (and others) please make the List > address your only To: address and all others CC. ? When you have > multiple To: addresses, I have to go up as admin and let you in. I don't > know how other Mailman lists are configured, but your method isn't > uncommon. > It looks as though I got that wrong. There is a ceiling of 10 addresses in the message headers, to stop spam. Meredith had over 10 CC's. I have increased that number to 15. Doug. From Highfieldfamily at msn.com Sat Mar 20 21:14:40 2010 From: Highfieldfamily at msn.com (Highfield Family) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:14:40 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] FAMILY TREES, HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded Message-ID: Hi Doug - I didn't fully understand the message, but I think I've done what you asked in this one - anyway, I do hope the actual info in my message was of interest! Cheers for now, MH On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:51:41 pm Doug Laidlaw wrote: > Thanks Meredith. BTW, would you (and others) please make the List > address your only To: address and all others CC. ? When you have > multiple To: addresses, I have to go up as admin and let you in. I don't > know how other Mailman lists are configured, but your method isn't > uncommon. > It looks as though I got that wrong. There is a ceiling of 10 addresses in the message headers, to stop spam. Meredith had over 10 CC's. I have increased that number to 15. Doug. From: Highfield Family Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 5:51 PM To: Doug Laidlaw ; boykett-announce at douglaidlaw.net Cc: Antoinette Guster ; Samuel Guster ; mignon kent ; TOM_work ; Sharon Moey ; Matt and Gen ; Gilly Walsh ; Elizabeth GUSTER Subject: FAMILY TREES, HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded Hi Doug - just to let you know that there's no way your work is lost on younger generations - my niece (who is only 18), replied to me immediately saying she'd love to read your book when it's finished! Re every 2 humans being separated by only a maximum of 7 family tree steps - yes, there is very strong (in fact virtually indisputable) evidence that this is absolutely sustainable: (1) by extrapolating from the logic and experience of tracing back any 2 families chosen at random and eventually finding their common ancestry (e.g. the way the popular mags trace back the families of many American movie stars and find their links to British/European nobility!) (2) from the further logic of constantly exploding world population and the fact that every single one of us is obviously descended from a much much smaller number of individuals (3) more recently from the genetic knowledge, surname projects and databases which are absolutely exploding! (It's now possible for 2 people with the same surname to have their DNA tested to find out if they are related. It's also possible, at least in the US, for males who have been adopted or say African-Americans who have a white ancestor, to find out by DNA testing what is the surname of people who are related to them; their sisters/female relatives will thus have an answer as well) You may find it interesting to trawl through the National Geographic's Genographic project website - hours and hours of fascinating info there! https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html You'll see that genetic studies have shown that everyone alive today (not everyone who has ever lived - some family lines died out long before the present day) is descended from an African man and woman - the "scientific Adam" (lived about 60,000 years ago) and "scientific Eve" (lived about 150-200,000 years ago). Of course they were not the only individuals alive at the time (though the numbers of others were NOT great!) but their lines were the only ones which carried through continuously to migrate to different parts of the globe and give rise to everyone alive today. (ie all today's male lines trace back to that one man, and all today's females lines trace back to that one woman). There have since been mutations at different times and in different locations, which produced the different "haplogroups" - we all belong to one of these haplogroups. The African !San Bushmen are the people whose DNA most closely resembles that of our earliest ancestors, and much evidence points to "click" languages as being representative of the very first organised languages. I had my mitochondrial DNA analysed a few years ago by the NG project, and my female line is subgroup T2 of Haplogroup T. I'll put some info about them below: If you or a male relative were to submit a sample to the NG Genographic Project (I think this NG project has now started up in Australia - I just sent for the kit by mail at the time I participated in it) , you could trace back the Y-chromosome of the Boykett male line to find where it first originated - or other people with the same or similar surname could also find out if they are related (or if your Laidlaws have common ancestry with my grandmother's Laidlaws!)! Have fun reading the National Geographic site! MH P.S. By the way, further to your mention of hemophilia - you may find your family has a haemochromatosis (iron overload) gene, which can cause liver problems (and much higher susceptibility to even the smallest amount of alcohol - might have affected those Boykett drinkers!), mood problems and heart problems - because I have 2 copies of versions of this gene, one weak and rare (H63D) and one stronger and common (C282Y). (I don't have any symptoms and probably won't). I don't know which one came from which parent, or whether mum's copy came from the Boyketts or from her mother's family, but these genes are very common in people of Celtic ancestry and it is not unusual for two carriers to marry, and produce children who may have 2 copies and therefore potentially have symptoms (females much later than males because menstruation delays onset). This condition has been deadly to many as it was unrecognised (e.g. as described in the book "The Bronze Killer") and is still very underdiagnosed - but at the same time there are people walking around with 1 or even 2 copies of the gene who will never have any symptoms - its expression is very variable and probably depends on other genetic factors that people have. Treatment is venesection (blood-taking - eligible people can donate to Red Cross) to reduce the iron load in the blood - a blunt weapon but effective. PPS. Info about Mitochondrial Haplotype T: "The mitochondrial Haplogroup T is best characterized as a European lineage. With an origin in the Near East greater than 45,000 years ago, the major sub-lineages of Haplogroup T entered Europe around the time of the Neolithic 10,000 years ago. Once in Europe, these sub-lineages underwent a dramatic expansion associated with the arrival of agriculture in Europe. Today, we find Haplogroup T*, the root Haplogroup for Haplogroup T, widely distributed in Europe." About subclade T1 they write: "The origin of Haplogroup T1 dates to at least 6,000 years ago, and today, we find Haplogroup T1 distributed in populations living in southeast, central, and northwestern Europe." Regarding subclade T2: "Haplogroup T2 is one of the older sub-lineages and may have been present in Europe as early as the Late Upper Palaeolithic." Haplogroup T is currently found with high concentrations around the eastern Baltic Sea. According to Oxford Ancestors, Haplogroup T "includes slightly fewer than 10% of modern Europeans. Its many branches are widely distributed throughout southern and western Europe with particularly high concentrations in Ireland and the west of Britain."[2] According to the Genographic Project: "Haplogroup T has a very wide distribution, and is present as far east as the Indus Valley bordering India and Pakistan and as far south as the Arabian peninsula. It is also common in eastern and northern Europe." [3] Early agriculturalists and pastoralists The Genographic Project states that early people with Haplogroup T were likely some of the first organized agriculturalists and pastoralists, and that they probably comprised the group which first brought settled agriculture and pastoralism on to the European continent, bringing the "Neolithic Revolution" to Europe; they write: "Although the haplogroup was present during the early and middle Upper Paleolithic, [Haplogroup] T is generally considered one of the main genetic signatures of the Neolithic expansions. While groups of hunter-gatherers and subsistence fishermen had been occupying much of Eurasia for tens of thousands of years, around ten thousand years ago a group of modern humans living in the Fertile Crescent-present day eastern Turkey and northern Syria-began domesticating the plants, nuts, and seeds they had been collecting. What resulted were the world's first agriculturalists, and this new cultural era is typically referred to as the Neolithic. Groups of individuals able to support larger populations with this reliable food source began migrating out of the Middle East, bringing their new technology with them. By then, humans had already settled much of the surrounding areas, but this new agricultural technology proved too successful to ignore, and the surrounding groups quickly copied these new immigrants. Interesting, DNA data indicate that while these new agriculturalists were incredibly successful at planting their technology in the surrounding groups, they were far less successful at planting their own genetic seed. Agriculture was quickly and widely adopted, but the lineages carried by these Neolithic expansions are found at frequencies seldom greater than 20 percent in Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia." [3] -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Laidlaw" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:48 PM To: Subject: Re: [Boykett-announce] Boykett Family History - Appreciation forDoug Re: Book - new draft uploaded > Thanks Meredith. It is just a nuisance that I had to inherit depression from > the Boyketts as well. > > It could have been worse. My grandmother Esther nee Boykett born 1889 married > a hemophiliac. I remember his fearful nosebleeds. Their son, who would have > been free of it, was killed in a MCA at 21. The condition passed through two > generations of females and was first diagnosed in my sister's son. (Then they > found that it was all documented at the Alfred Hospital Prahran, and nobody > had been told.) He has to take extra precautions for dentistry, even. His > sister, who is a carrier and married recently, is taking some kind of > treatment before getting pregnant. > > And that completely bypassed me, with my three daughters! My brother, who > underwent major surgery at 8, apparently missed out as well. He had two > girls. With a mother who was a carrier, we each stood a 50/50 chance. > > Doug. > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:23:23 pm highfieldm at msn.com wrote: >> Dear Doug, >> I just wanted to let you know that even though I am very busy with my >> studies right now and have therefore regrettably been unable to do >> justice to all your fantastic work on the Boykett family history - I >> very much appreciate all you are doing and I'm sure that not only now >> but in every generation to come, there are and always will be many >> others who appreciate all you are doing for all of us Boykett >> descendants! >> >> It has been predicted that sometime in the not too far distant future, >> about 1 in every 20 Australians will be descended from 1 woman who >> arrived with the 1st Fleet and had 14 children - and i think this >> gives an idea of what will continue to happen to the Boykett clan - >> our lines will merge with so many other families, so our history will >> become their history too! >> >> In other words, your work will touch countless Australian lives! >> >> Take care of yourself , Doug, all the best and good luck with your >> work - I'm sure your book will be fantastic and highly treasured by >> family near and far. >> Warm regards, >> Meredith Highfield (nee Guster, daughter of Ann nee Boykett) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 18 mars 2010, at 09:40 PM, Doug Laidlaw >> >> wrote: >> > I have just replaced the draft book at >> > http://www.douglaidlaw.net/boykett/boykettbook.pdf with the latest >> > version >> > from my computer. It is 30 KB bigger, but it is so long since I >> > have looked >> > at it, that I am not sure what the additions are. >> > >> > Doug. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > boykett-announce mailing list > boykett-announce at douglaidlaw.net > http://douglaidlaw.net/mailman/listinfo/boykett-announce_douglaidlaw.net > From highfieldm at msn.com Sat Mar 20 21:23:54 2010 From: highfieldm at msn.com (Meredith Highfield) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:23:54 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] RE the 7 steps Re: FAMILY TREES, HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett FamilyHistory - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded In-Reply-To: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au><201003182348.23003.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> <201003201851.41692.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au><201003182348.23003.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> <201003201851.41692.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: Hi again Doug - I think whoever it was, probably referred to the 7 steps as being 7 major haplotypes or mutations - each mutation being a "step". There was a simplified book that came out some years ago called something like "the 7 daughters of Eve" - obviously this is a gross simplification, but fair enough if we talk about very deep ancestry, because there were so few humans then anyway! Cheers for now, MH -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Laidlaw" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:51 PM To: Subject: Re: [Boykett-announce] FAMILY TREES,HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett FamilyHistory - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded > Thanks Meredith. BTW, would you (and others) please make the List > address > your only To: address and all others CC. ? When you have multiple To: > addresses, I have to go up as admin and let you in. I don't know how > other > Mailman lists are configured, but your method isn't uncommon. > > Last night we watched the television documentary showing how the > Australian > Aborigines are ultimately descended from Africans. It was only the 7 > steps I > was querying. That would be exceeded within a few generations. As I > understood the original, they weren't saying that we could go up 7 > generations > and down another 7, but the total path length was no more than 7 steps. > Even > counting siblings as one step and not two, I doubt if there would be > enough > possibilities. > > Doug. > > On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 05:51:37 pm Highfield Family wrote: >> Hi Doug - just to let you know that there's no way your work is lost on >> younger generations - my niece (who is only 18), replied to me >> immediately >> saying she'd love to read your book when it's finished! >> >> Re every 2 humans being separated by only a maximum of 7 family tree >> steps >> - yes, there is very strong (in fact virtually indisputable) evidence >> that >> this is absolutely sustainable: >> >> (1) by extrapolating from the logic and experience of tracing back any 2 >> families chosen at random and eventually finding their common ancestry >> (e.g. the way the popular mags trace back the families of many American >> movie stars and find their links to British/European nobility!) >> >> (2) from the further logic of constantly exploding world population and >> the fact that every single one of us is obviously descended from a much >> much smaller number of individuals >> >> (3) more recently from the genetic knowledge, surname projects and >> databases which are absolutely exploding! (It's now possible for 2 >> people >> with the same surname to have their DNA tested to find out if they are >> related. It's also possible, at least in the US, for males who have been >> adopted or say African-Americans who have a white ancestor, to find out >> by >> DNA testing what is the surname of people who are related to them; their >> sisters/female relatives will thus have an answer as well) >> >> You may find it interesting to trawl through the National Geographic's >> Genographic project website - hours and hours of fascinating info there! >> https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html >> >> You'll see that genetic studies have shown that everyone alive today >> (not >> everyone who has ever lived - some family lines died out long before the >> present day) is descended from an African man and woman - the >> "scientific >> Adam" (lived about 60,000 years ago) and "scientific Eve" (lived about >> 150-200,000 years ago). Of course they were not the only individuals >> alive >> at the time (though the numbers of others were NOT great!) but their >> lines >> were the only ones which carried through continuously to migrate to >> different parts of the globe and give rise to everyone alive today. (ie >> all today's male lines trace back to that one man, and all today's >> females >> lines trace back to that one woman). There have since been mutations at >> different times and in different locations, which produced the different >> "haplogroups" - we all belong to one of these haplogroups. The African >> !San Bushmen are the people whose DNA most closely resembles that of our >> earliest ancestors, and much evidence points to "click" languages as >> being >> representative of the very first organised languages. >> >> I had my mitochondrial DNA analysed a few years ago by the NG project, >> and >> my female line is subgroup T2 of Haplogroup T. I'll put some info about >> them below: >> >> If you or a male relative were to submit a sample to the NG Genographic >> Project (I think this NG project has now started up in Australia - I >> just >> sent for the kit by mail at the time I participated in it) , you could >> trace back the Y-chromosome of the Boykett male line to find where it >> first originated - or other people with the same or similar surname >> could >> also find out if they are related (or if your Laidlaws have common >> ancestry with my grandmother's Laidlaws!)! >> >> Have fun reading the National Geographic site! >> >> MH >> >> >> P.S. By the way, further to your mention of hemophilia - you may find >> your >> family has a haemochromatosis (iron overload) gene, which can cause >> liver >> problems (and much higher susceptibility to even the smallest amount of >> alcohol - might have affected those Boykett drinkers!), mood problems >> and >> heart problems - because I have 2 copies of versions of this gene, one >> weak and rare (H63D) and one stronger and common (C282Y). (I don't have >> any symptoms and probably won't). I don't know which one came from which >> parent, or whether mum's copy came from the Boyketts or from her >> mother's >> family, but these genes are very common in people of Celtic ancestry and >> it is not unusual for two carriers to marry, and produce children who >> may >> have 2 copies and therefore potentially have symptoms (females much >> later >> than males because menstruation delays onset). This condition has been >> deadly to many as it was unrecognised (e.g. as described in the book >> "The >> Bronze Killer") and is still very underdiagnosed - but at the same time >> there are people walking around with 1 or even 2 copies of the gene who >> will never have any symptoms - its expression is very variable and >> probably depends on other genetic factors that people have. Treatment is >> venesection (blood-taking - eligible people can donate to Red Cross) to >> reduce the iron load in the blood - a blunt weapon but effective. >> >> PPS. Info about Mitochondrial Haplotype T: >> >> >> "The mitochondrial Haplogroup T is best characterized as a European >> lineage. With an origin in the Near East greater than 45,000 years ago, >> the major sub-lineages of Haplogroup T entered Europe around the time of >> the Neolithic 10,000 years ago. Once in Europe, these sub-lineages >> underwent a dramatic expansion associated with the arrival of >> agriculture >> in Europe. Today, we find Haplogroup T*, the root Haplogroup for >> Haplogroup T, widely distributed in Europe." >> >> About subclade T1 they write: "The origin of Haplogroup T1 dates to at >> least 6,000 years ago, and today, we find Haplogroup T1 distributed in >> populations living in southeast, central, and northwestern Europe." >> >> Regarding subclade T2: "Haplogroup T2 is one of the older sub-lineages >> and >> may have been present in Europe as early as the Late Upper >> Palaeolithic." >> >> Haplogroup T is currently found with high concentrations around the >> eastern >> Baltic Sea. According to Oxford Ancestors, Haplogroup T "includes >> slightly >> fewer than 10% of modern Europeans. Its many branches are widely >> distributed throughout southern and western Europe with particularly >> high >> concentrations in Ireland and the west of Britain."[2] According to the >> Genographic Project: "Haplogroup T has a very wide distribution, and is >> present as far east as the Indus Valley bordering India and Pakistan and >> as far south as the Arabian peninsula. It is also common in eastern and >> northern Europe." [3] >> >> >> >> Early agriculturalists and pastoralists >> The Genographic Project states that early people with Haplogroup T were >> likely some of the first organized agriculturalists and pastoralists, >> and >> that they probably comprised the group which first brought settled >> agriculture and pastoralism on to the European continent, bringing the >> "Neolithic Revolution" to Europe; they write: "Although the haplogroup >> was >> present during the early and middle Upper Paleolithic, [Haplogroup] T is >> generally considered one of the main genetic signatures of the Neolithic >> expansions. While groups of hunter-gatherers and subsistence fishermen >> had >> been occupying much of Eurasia for tens of thousands of years, around >> ten >> thousand years ago a group of modern humans living in the Fertile >> Crescent-present day eastern Turkey and northern Syria-began >> domesticating >> the plants, nuts, and seeds they had been collecting. What resulted were >> the world's first agriculturalists, and this new cultural era is >> typically >> referred to as the Neolithic. Groups of individuals able to support >> larger >> populations with this reliable food source began migrating out of the >> Middle East, bringing their new technology with them. By then, humans >> had >> already settled much of the surrounding areas, but this new agricultural >> technology proved too successful to ignore, and the surrounding groups >> quickly copied these new immigrants. Interesting, DNA data indicate that >> while these new agriculturalists were incredibly successful at planting >> their technology in the surrounding groups, they were far less >> successful >> at planting their own genetic seed. Agriculture was quickly and widely >> adopted, but the lineages carried by these Neolithic expansions are >> found >> at frequencies seldom greater than 20 percent in Europe, the Middle >> East, >> and Central Asia." [3] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Doug Laidlaw" >> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:48 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: [Boykett-announce] Boykett Family History - Appreciation >> forDoug Re: Book - new draft uploaded >> >> > Thanks Meredith. It is just a nuisance that I had to inherit >> > depression >> > from the Boyketts as well. >> > >> > It could have been worse. My grandmother Esther nee Boykett born 1889 >> > married a hemophiliac. I remember his fearful nosebleeds. Their son, >> > who would have been free of it, was killed in a MCA at 21. The >> > condition >> > passed through two generations of females and was first diagnosed in my >> > sister's son. (Then they found that it was all documented at the >> > Alfred >> > Hospital Prahran, and nobody had been told.) He has to take extra >> > precautions for dentistry, even. His sister, who is a carrier and >> > married recently, is taking some kind of treatment before getting >> > pregnant. >> > >> > And that completely bypassed me, with my three daughters! My brother, >> > who underwent major surgery at 8, apparently missed out as well. He >> > had >> > two girls. With a mother who was a carrier, we each stood a 50/50 >> > chance. >> > >> > Doug. >> > >> > On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:23:23 pm highfieldm at msn.com wrote: >> >> Dear Doug, >> >> I just wanted to let you know that even though I am very busy with my >> >> studies right now and have therefore regrettably been unable to do >> >> justice to all your fantastic work on the Boykett family history - I >> >> very much appreciate all you are doing and I'm sure that not only now >> >> but in every generation to come, there are and always will be many >> >> others who appreciate all you are doing for all of us Boykett >> >> descendants! >> >> >> >> It has been predicted that sometime in the not too far distant future, >> >> about 1 in every 20 Australians will be descended from 1 woman who >> >> arrived with the 1st Fleet and had 14 children - and i think this >> >> gives an idea of what will continue to happen to the Boykett clan - >> >> our lines will merge with so many other families, so our history will >> >> become their history too! >> >> >> >> In other words, your work will touch countless Australian lives! >> >> >> >> Take care of yourself , Doug, all the best and good luck with your >> >> work - I'm sure your book will be fantastic and highly treasured by >> >> family near and far. >> >> Warm regards, >> >> Meredith Highfield (nee Guster, daughter of Ann nee Boykett) >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On 18 mars 2010, at 09:40 PM, Doug Laidlaw >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> > I have just replaced the draft book at >> >> > http://www.douglaidlaw.net/boykett/boykettbook.pdf with the latest >> >> > version >> >> > from my computer. It is 30 KB bigger, but it is so long since I >> >> > have looked >> >> > at it, that I am not sure what the additions are. >> >> > >> >> > Doug. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > boykett-announce mailing list >> > boykett-announce at douglaidlaw.net >> > http://douglaidlaw.net/mailman/listinfo/boykett-announce_douglaidlaw.net >> >> !DSPAM:4ba4797444751025641944! >> > > _______________________________________________ > boykett-announce mailing list > boykett-announce at douglaidlaw.net > http://douglaidlaw.net/mailman/listinfo/boykett-announce_douglaidlaw.net > From Highfieldfamily at msn.com Sat Mar 20 22:11:23 2010 From: Highfieldfamily at msn.com (Highfield Family) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:11:23 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Abernethy-Laidlaw-Boykett-Guster female DNA line - and matching DNA databases with surnames and country of origin! Re: FAMILY TREES, HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uplo In-Reply-To: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au><201003182348.23003.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au><201003182348.23003.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: Hi all, Further to my info about the T2 haplotype of my mitochondrial DNA (passed down through the female line) of my female line that traces back through my mother Ann Boykett, to her mother Mary Laidlaw, to her mother Ethel Abernethy, and back beyond that through each mother - there are two free databases which allow one to enter the details of one's mitochondrial DNA (or Y chromosome if you are male and have had that tested) and then search for all other participants who have the same haplotype - you can then see the female surnames that have been involved (unfortunately these obviously change with each generation, which makes it trickier - our male relatives could have their Y-chromosome tested and simplify things a lot!) and where those people were living in many cases. I entered my details (which I will paste below) and created generic logons which you can all use if you want to have fun looking at the family trees, surnames and country of origin of all the people who may be related to us! This is not irrelevant to our male relatives either - as you are all descended from Mary Boykett nee Laidlaw, you have the same ancestry too! It's just that the males won't pass on the mitochondrial DNA to their children - a mother passes it to both her sons and daughters, but only the daughters pass it on to their children. The websites are: (1) www.mitosearch.org, userid MDQ72, password "abernethy" (2) www.smgf.org, userid highfieldfamily at msn.com, password "abernethy" Just for fun, since one of us has an interest in Germany - here are some German surnames of families from the smgf.org database, with the same haplotype as ours: BUEHLER, RUBIN (from Garden), THODE (from Gonneby), NEFF (from Wuerttemberg) , GOLDHARDT (from Saxony), MAURER, PETER (from Colmar), BALTZINGER (form Colmar), MISSIG. There are lots more to explore! And "relatives" from lots of other countries as well! Have fun, everyone! Here are the details of the Abernethy mitochondrial DNA: Haplogroup : T (Subclade T2) Mitochondrial HVR I Sequence - 16126C, 16294T, 16296T, 16304C, 16519C -------------------------------------------------- From: "Highfield Family" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 5:51 PM To: "Doug Laidlaw" ; Cc: "TOM_work" ; "Antoinette Guster" ; "Sharon Moey" ; "Matt and Gen" ; "mignon kent" ; "Samuel Guster" Subject: [Boykett-announce] FAMILY TREES,HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett FamilyHistory - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded > Hi Doug - just to let you know that there's no way your work is lost on younger generations - my niece (who is only 18), replied to me immediately saying she'd love to read your book when it's finished! > > Re every 2 humans being separated by only a maximum of 7 family tree steps - yes, there is very strong (in fact virtually indisputable) evidence that this is absolutely sustainable: > > (1) by extrapolating from the logic and experience of tracing back any 2 families chosen at random and eventually finding their common ancestry (e.g. the way the popular mags trace back the families of many American movie stars and find their links to British/European nobility!) > > (2) from the further logic of constantly exploding world population and the fact that every single one of us is obviously descended from a much much smaller number of individuals > > (3) more recently from the genetic knowledge, surname projects and databases which are absolutely exploding! (It's now possible for 2 people with the same surname to have their DNA tested to find out if they are related. It's also possible, at least in the US, for males who have been adopted or say African-Americans who have a white ancestor, to find out by DNA testing what is the surname of people who are related to them; their sisters/female relatives will thus have an answer as well) > > You may find it interesting to trawl through the National Geographic's Genographic project website - hours and hours of fascinating info there! https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html > > You'll see that genetic studies have shown that everyone alive today (not everyone who has ever lived - some family lines died out long before the present day) is descended from an African man and woman - the "scientific Adam" (lived about 60,000 years ago) and "scientific Eve" (lived about 150-200,000 years ago). Of course they were not the only individuals alive at the time (though the numbers of others were NOT great!) but their lines were the only ones which carried through continuously to migrate to different parts of the globe and give rise to everyone alive today. (ie all today's male lines trace back to that one man, and all today's females lines trace back to that one woman). There have since been mutations at different times and in different locations, which produced the different "haplogroups" - we all belong to one of these haplogroups. The African !San Bushmen are the people whose DNA most closely resembles that of our earliest ancestors, and much evidence points to "click" languages as being representative of the very first organised languages. > > I had my mitochondrial DNA analysed a few years ago by the NG project, and my female line is subgroup T2 of Haplogroup T. I'll put some info about them below: > > If you or a male relative were to submit a sample to the NG Genographic Project (I think this NG project has now started up in Australia - I just sent for the kit by mail at the time I participated in it) , you could trace back the Y-chromosome of the Boykett male line to find where it first originated - or other people with the same or similar surname could also find out if they are related (or if your Laidlaws have common ancestry with my grandmother's Laidlaws!)! > > Have fun reading the National Geographic site! > > MH > > > P.S. By the way, further to your mention of hemophilia - you may find your family has a haemochromatosis (iron overload) gene, which can cause liver problems (and much higher susceptibility to even the smallest amount of alcohol - might have affected those Boykett drinkers!), mood problems and heart problems - because I have 2 copies of versions of this gene, one weak and rare (H63D) and one stronger and common (C282Y). (I don't have any symptoms and probably won't). I don't know which one came from which parent, or whether mum's copy came from the Boyketts or from her mother's family, but these genes are very common in people of Celtic ancestry and it is not unusual for two carriers to marry, and produce children who may have 2 copies and therefore potentially have symptoms (females much later than males because menstruation delays onset). This condition has been deadly to many as it was unrecognised (e.g. as described in the book "The Bronze Killer") and is still very underdiagnosed - but at the same time there are people walking around with 1 or even 2 copies of the gene who will never have any symptoms - its expression is very variable and probably depends on other genetic factors that people have. Treatment is venesection (blood-taking - eligible people can donate to Red Cross) to reduce the iron load in the blood - a blunt weapon but effective. > > PPS. Info about Mitochondrial Haplotype T: > > > "The mitochondrial Haplogroup T is best characterized as a European lineage. With an origin in the Near East greater than 45,000 years ago, the major sub-lineages of Haplogroup T entered Europe around the time of the Neolithic 10,000 years ago. Once in Europe, these sub-lineages underwent a dramatic expansion associated with the arrival of agriculture in Europe. Today, we find Haplogroup T*, the root Haplogroup for Haplogroup T, widely distributed in Europe." > > About subclade T1 they write: "The origin of Haplogroup T1 dates to at least 6,000 years ago, and today, we find Haplogroup T1 distributed in populations living in southeast, central, and northwestern Europe." > > Regarding subclade T2: "Haplogroup T2 is one of the older sub-lineages and may have been present in Europe as early as the Late Upper Palaeolithic." > > Haplogroup T is currently found with high concentrations around the eastern Baltic Sea. According to Oxford Ancestors, Haplogroup T "includes slightly fewer than 10% of modern Europeans. Its many branches are widely distributed throughout southern and western Europe with particularly high concentrations in Ireland and the west of Britain."[2] According to the Genographic Project: "Haplogroup T has a very wide distribution, and is present as far east as the Indus Valley bordering India and Pakistan and as far south as the Arabian peninsula. It is also common in eastern and northern Europe." [3] > > > > Early agriculturalists and pastoralists > The Genographic Project states that early people with Haplogroup T were likely some of the first organized agriculturalists and pastoralists, and that they probably comprised the group which first brought settled agriculture and pastoralism on to the European continent, bringing the "Neolithic Revolution" to Europe; they write: "Although the haplogroup was present during the early and middle Upper Paleolithic, [Haplogroup] T is generally considered one of the main genetic signatures of the Neolithic expansions. While groups of hunter-gatherers and subsistence fishermen had been occupying much of Eurasia for tens of thousands of years, around ten thousand years ago a group of modern humans living in the Fertile Crescent-present day eastern Turkey and northern Syria-began domesticating the plants, nuts, and seeds they had been collecting. What resulted were the world's first agriculturalists, and this new cultural era is typically referred to as the Neolithic. Groups of individuals able to support larger populations with this reliable food source began migrating out of the Middle East, bringing their new technology with them. By then, humans had already settled much of the surrounding areas, but this new agricultural technology proved too successful to ignore, and the surrounding groups quickly copied these new immigrants. Interesting, DNA data indicate that while these new agriculturalists were incredibly successful at planting their technology in the surrounding groups, they were far less successful at planting their own genetic seed. Agriculture was quickly and widely adopted, but the lineages carried by these Neolithic expansions are found at frequencies seldom greater than 20 percent in Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia." [3] > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Doug Laidlaw" > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:48 PM > To: > Subject: Re: [Boykett-announce] Boykett Family History - Appreciation forDoug Re: Book - new draft uploaded > >> Thanks Meredith. It is just a nuisance that I had to inherit depression from >> the Boyketts as well. >> >> It could have been worse. My grandmother Esther nee Boykett born 1889 married >> a hemophiliac. I remember his fearful nosebleeds. Their son, who would have >> been free of it, was killed in a MCA at 21. The condition passed through two >> generations of females and was first diagnosed in my sister's son. (Then they >> found that it was all documented at the Alfred Hospital Prahran, and nobody >> had been told.) He has to take extra precautions for dentistry, even. His >> sister, who is a carrier and married recently, is taking some kind of >> treatment before getting pregnant. >> >> And that completely bypassed me, with my three daughters! My brother, who >> underwent major surgery at 8, apparently missed out as well. He had two >> girls. With a mother who was a carrier, we each stood a 50/50 chance. >> >> Doug. >> >> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:23:23 pm highfieldm at msn.com wrote: >>> Dear Doug, >>> I just wanted to let you know that even though I am very busy with my >>> studies right now and have therefore regrettably been unable to do >>> justice to all your fantastic work on the Boykett family history - I >>> very much appreciate all you are doing and I'm sure that not only now >>> but in every generation to come, there are and always will be many >>> others who appreciate all you are doing for all of us Boykett >>> descendants! >>> >>> It has been predicted that sometime in the not too far distant future, >>> about 1 in every 20 Australians will be descended from 1 woman who >>> arrived with the 1st Fleet and had 14 children - and i think this >>> gives an idea of what will continue to happen to the Boykett clan - >>> our lines will merge with so many other families, so our history will >>> become their history too! >>> >>> In other words, your work will touch countless Australian lives! >>> >>> Take care of yourself , Doug, all the best and good luck with your >>> work - I'm sure your book will be fantastic and highly treasured by >>> family near and far. >>> Warm regards, >>> Meredith Highfield (nee Guster, daughter of Ann nee Boykett) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 18 mars 2010, at 09:40 PM, Doug Laidlaw >>> >>> wrote: >>> > I have just replaced the draft book at >>> > http://www.douglaidlaw.net/boykett/boykettbook.pdf with the latest >>> > version >>> > from my computer. It is 30 KB bigger, but it is so long since I >>> > have looked >>> > at it, that I am not sure what the additions are. >>> > >>> > Doug. >>> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> boykett-announce mailing list >> boykett-announce at douglaidlaw.net >> http://douglaidlaw.net/mailman/listinfo/boykett-announce_douglaidlaw.net >> > _______________________________________________ > boykett-announce mailing list > boykett-announce at douglaidlaw.net > http://douglaidlaw.net/mailman/listinfo/boykett-announce_douglaidlaw.net > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Sat Mar 20 23:03:43 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 23:03:43 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] FAMILY TREES, HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded In-Reply-To: <201003201908.20953.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> <201003201851.41692.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> <201003201908.20953.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: <201003202303.43513.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> 15 wasn't enough. I have increased it to 20. Spammers don't list multiple recipients, anyway. Doug. On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:08:20 pm Doug Laidlaw wrote: > On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:51:41 pm Doug Laidlaw wrote: > > Thanks Meredith. BTW, would you (and others) please make the List > > address your only To: address and all others CC. ? When you have > > multiple To: addresses, I have to go up as admin and let you in. I > > don't know how other Mailman lists are configured, but your method isn't > > uncommon. > > It looks as though I got that wrong. There is a ceiling of 10 addresses in > the message headers, to stop spam. Meredith had over 10 CC's. I have > increased that number to 15. > > Doug. > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Sat Mar 20 23:36:34 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 23:36:34 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Abernethy-Laidlaw-Boykett-Guster female DNA line - and matching DNA databases with surnames and country of origin! Re: FAMILY TREES, HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett Family History - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uplo In-Reply-To: References: <201003182140.18247.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: <201003202336.34897.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Regarding the surname Laidlaw: As your mother explained to me, your Laidlaws go back through Adam of Amphitheatre to the Ettrick/Selkirk Laidlaws. Mine are descended from the lowlands. William was from the Dumfries area, to the best of my knowledge. I have identified him with one born in Dumfries in 1846, but I can't guarantee that. But the Highland Laidlaws are supposed to have originated in the same area, before they took to the hills. Clarice Gould was telling me, along time ago, that somebody - a Moffatt I think (or from Moffatt) came down there looking for a bride. It is possible that my lowland genes went up to Ettrick and out here the long way around. I found one of your Laidlaws on the IGI - Adam Laidlaw who in 1815 married Margaret STODDARD in Yarrow, Selkirk. No doubt he fits in further back than I have taken your line. Doug. On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:11:23 pm Highfield Family wrote: > Hi all, > > Further to my info about the T2 haplotype of my mitochondrial DNA (passed > down through the female line) of my female line that traces back through > my mother Ann Boykett, to her mother Mary Laidlaw, to her mother Ethel > Abernethy, and back beyond that through each mother - there are two free > databases which allow one to enter the details of one's mitochondrial DNA > (or Y chromosome if you are male and have had that tested) and then search > for all other participants who have the same haplotype - you can then see > the female surnames that have been involved (unfortunately these obviously > change with each generation, which makes it trickier - our male relatives > could have their Y-chromosome tested and simplify things a lot!) and where > those people were living in many cases. > > I entered my details (which I will paste below) and created generic logons > which you can all use if you want to have fun looking at the family trees, > surnames and country of origin of all the people who may be related to us! > This is not irrelevant to our male relatives either - as you are all > descended from Mary Boykett nee Laidlaw, you have the same ancestry too! > It's just that the males won't pass on the mitochondrial DNA to their > children - a mother passes it to both her sons and daughters, but only the > daughters pass it on to their children. > > The websites are: > > (1) www.mitosearch.org, userid MDQ72, password "abernethy" > > (2) www.smgf.org, userid highfieldfamily at msn.com, password "abernethy" > > Just for fun, since one of us has an interest in Germany - here are some > German surnames of families from the smgf.org database, with the same > haplotype as ours: BUEHLER, RUBIN (from Garden), THODE (from Gonneby), > NEFF (from Wuerttemberg) , GOLDHARDT (from Saxony), MAURER, PETER (from > Colmar), BALTZINGER (form Colmar), MISSIG. There are lots more to explore! > And "relatives" from lots of other countries as well! > > Have fun, everyone! > > > Here are the details of the Abernethy mitochondrial DNA: > Haplogroup : T (Subclade T2) > Mitochondrial HVR I Sequence - 16126C, 16294T, 16296T, 16304C, 16519C > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Highfield Family" > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 5:51 PM > To: "Doug Laidlaw" ; > Cc: "TOM_work" > ; "Antoinette Guster" ; > "Sharon Moey" ; "Matt and Gen" > ; "mignon kent" ; "Samuel > Guster" Subject: [Boykett-announce] FAMILY > TREES,HUMAN GENETIC HAPLOGROUPS and SURNAME PROJECTS RE: Boykett > FamilyHistory - Appreciation for Doug Re: Book - new draft uploaded > > > Hi Doug - just to let you know that there's no way your work is lost on > > younger generations - my niece (who is only 18), replied to me > > immediately saying she'd love to read your book when it's finished! > > > > Re every 2 humans being separated by only a maximum of 7 family tree > > steps - yes, there is very strong (in fact virtually indisputable) > > evidence that this is absolutely sustainable: > > > > (1) by extrapolating from the logic and experience of tracing back any 2 > > families chosen at random and eventually finding their common ancestry > > (e.g. the way the popular mags trace back the families of many American > > movie stars and find their links to British/European nobility!) > > > > (2) from the further logic of constantly exploding world population and > > the fact that every single one of us is obviously descended from a much > > much smaller number of individuals > > > > (3) more recently from the genetic knowledge, surname projects and > > databases which are absolutely exploding! (It's now possible for 2 people > > with the same surname to have their DNA tested to find out if they are > > related. It's also possible, at least in the US, for males who have been > > adopted or say African-Americans who have a white ancestor, to find out > > by DNA testing what is the surname of people who are related to them; > > their sisters/female relatives will thus have an answer as well) > > > > You may find it interesting to trawl through the National Geographic's > > Genographic project website - hours and hours of fascinating info there! > > https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html > > > > You'll see that genetic studies have shown that everyone alive today > > (not everyone who has ever lived - some family lines died out long before > > the present day) is descended from an African man and woman - the > > "scientific Adam" (lived about 60,000 years ago) and "scientific Eve" > > (lived about 150-200,000 years ago). Of course they were not the only > > individuals alive at the time (though the numbers of others were NOT > > great!) but their lines were the only ones which carried through > > continuously to migrate to different parts of the globe and give rise to > > everyone alive today. (ie all today's male lines trace back to that one > > man, and all today's females lines trace back to that one woman). There > > have since been mutations at different times and in different locations, > > which produced the different "haplogroups" - we all belong to one of > > these haplogroups. The African !San Bushmen are the people whose DNA most > > closely resembles that of our earliest ancestors, and much evidence > > points to "click" languages as being representative of the very first > > organised languages. > > > > I had my mitochondrial DNA analysed a few years ago by the NG project, > > and my female line is subgroup T2 of Haplogroup T. I'll put some info > > about them below: > > > > If you or a male relative were to submit a sample to the NG Genographic > > Project (I think this NG project has now started up in Australia - I just > > sent for the kit by mail at the time I participated in it) , you could > > trace back the Y-chromosome of the Boykett male line to find where it > > first originated - or other people with the same or similar surname could > > also find out if they are related (or if your Laidlaws have common > > ancestry with my grandmother's Laidlaws!)! > > > > Have fun reading the National Geographic site! > > > > MH > > > > > > P.S. By the way, further to your mention of hemophilia - you may find > > your family has a haemochromatosis (iron overload) gene, which can cause > > liver problems (and much higher susceptibility to even the smallest > > amount of alcohol - might have affected those Boykett drinkers!), mood > > problems and heart problems - because I have 2 copies of versions of this > > gene, one weak and rare (H63D) and one stronger and common (C282Y). (I > > don't have any symptoms and probably won't). I don't know which one came > > from which parent, or whether mum's copy came from the Boyketts or from > > her mother's family, but these genes are very common in people of Celtic > > ancestry and it is not unusual for two carriers to marry, and produce > > children who may have 2 copies and therefore potentially have symptoms > > (females much later than males because menstruation delays onset). This > > condition has been deadly to many as it was unrecognised (e.g. as > > described in the book "The Bronze Killer") and is still very > > underdiagnosed - but at the same time there are people walking around > > with 1 or even 2 copies of the gene who will never have any symptoms - > > its expression is very variable and probably depends on other genetic > > factors that people have. Treatment is venesection (blood-taking - > > eligible people can donate to Red Cross) to reduce the iron load in the > > blood - a blunt weapon but effective. > > > > PPS. Info about Mitochondrial Haplotype T: > > > > > > "The mitochondrial Haplogroup T is best characterized as a European > > lineage. With an origin in the Near East greater than 45,000 years ago, > > the major sub-lineages of Haplogroup T entered Europe around the time of > > the Neolithic 10,000 years ago. Once in Europe, these sub-lineages > > underwent a dramatic expansion associated with the arrival of agriculture > > in Europe. Today, we find Haplogroup T*, the root Haplogroup for > > Haplogroup T, widely distributed in Europe." > > > > About subclade T1 they write: "The origin of Haplogroup T1 dates to at > > least 6,000 years ago, and today, we find Haplogroup T1 distributed in > > populations living in southeast, central, and northwestern Europe." > > > > Regarding subclade T2: "Haplogroup T2 is one of the older sub-lineages > > and may have been present in Europe as early as the Late Upper > > Palaeolithic." > > > > Haplogroup T is currently found with high concentrations around the > > eastern Baltic Sea. According to Oxford Ancestors, Haplogroup T "includes > > slightly fewer than 10% of modern Europeans. Its many branches are widely > > distributed throughout southern and western Europe with particularly high > > concentrations in Ireland and the west of Britain."[2] According to the > > Genographic Project: "Haplogroup T has a very wide distribution, and is > > present as far east as the Indus Valley bordering India and Pakistan and > > as far south as the Arabian peninsula. It is also common in eastern and > > northern Europe." [3] > > > > > > > > Early agriculturalists and pastoralists > > The Genographic Project states that early people with Haplogroup T were > > likely some of the first organized agriculturalists and pastoralists, and > > that they probably comprised the group which first brought settled > > agriculture and pastoralism on to the European continent, bringing the > > "Neolithic Revolution" to Europe; they write: "Although the haplogroup > > was present during the early and middle Upper Paleolithic, [Haplogroup] T > > is generally considered one of the main genetic signatures of the > > Neolithic expansions. While groups of hunter-gatherers and subsistence > > fishermen had been occupying much of Eurasia for tens of thousands of > > years, around ten thousand years ago a group of modern humans living in > > the Fertile Crescent-present day eastern Turkey and northern Syria-began > > domesticating the plants, nuts, and seeds they had been collecting. What > > resulted were the world's first agriculturalists, and this new cultural > > era is typically referred to as the Neolithic. Groups of individuals able > > to support larger populations with this reliable food source began > > migrating out of the Middle East, bringing their new technology with > > them. By then, humans had already settled much of the surrounding areas, > > but this new agricultural technology proved too successful to ignore, and > > the surrounding groups quickly copied these new immigrants. Interesting, > > DNA data indicate that while these new agriculturalists were incredibly > > successful at planting their technology in the surrounding groups, they > > were far less successful at planting their own genetic seed. Agriculture > > was quickly and widely adopted, but the lineages carried by these > > Neolithic expansions are found at frequencies seldom greater than 20 > > percent in Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia." [3] > > > > > > > > > > > > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Wed Mar 24 01:51:38 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:51:38 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Fwd: RE: William Boykett Message-ID: <201003240151.38782.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Here is the reply from Canterbury about William Boykett, the landholder at Bobbing and grandfather of Thomas. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: RE: William Boykett Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 From: "Sheila Malloch" To: "Doug Laidlaw" Dear Mr Laidlaw Thank you for your email. We do hold the bond and allegation pertaining to the marriage licence of William Boyket. I have checked the documents and can confirm that the age is 30. We can supply copies of these documents. The charge would be our ?7.00 handling fee and 50p each of the two copies, making a total of ?8.00. Payment can be by cheque in pounds sterling (payable to The Dean and Chapter of Chapter of Canterbury) or by card over the telephone (01227 865330). Do let us know if you wish to go ahead and order the copies or if you have any further questions. Yours sincerely Sheila Malloch, Senior Archives Assistant The Cathedral Archives is administered as a partnership between Kent County Council and the Dean and Chapter of Canterbury. Visit our online catalogue at www.kentarchives.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: Doug Laidlaw [mailto:laidlaws at hotkey.net.au] Sent: 19 March 2010 04:22 To: Canterbury Cathedral Archives Subject: William Boykett Thank you for your letter dated 4 March. My enquiry is of very narrow compass: could the age of 30 mentioned in your letter of 12 May, 1983 to Dr Freeman be in fact 36. I would like to obtain a copy of the original licence application. Does that come from your office, or from London? Yours faithfully, Doug Laidlaw. ----------------------------------------- I still can't believe what they say. The point is: John Boykett and his wife Sarah nee Hearne had a son William who would have been 36 in the year that our William married. Francis Musto has found an inscription recorded among his papers that says that John and Sarah were "Late of Bobbing Court." It mentions as well other children of William's, as if the whole family were buried in one family grave. To me, even if it isn't a case of a family grave, the inscription, whatever it is, points to their being one family. And it would follow that William's parents, and in turn William himself, lived at Bobbing Court, as the Vicar of Ruddington always believed. Marriage by licence was an alternative to banns. It was stated to be less public, and quicker. A letter obtained from Canterbury some years ago says that William was 30 in his marriage licence. The present email confirms this. Marriage licences are listed in a printed book (the page containing the one for John and Sarah was among the papers I have) but it is possible to obtain the original licence. We have the application Thomas made on oath for his licence, which says he was of Leicestershire when he was of Lincolnshire and has one other error ("bachelor" is spelled "batchelor",) no doubt due to the clerk who filled it out. That doesn't reassure me of the standard of accuracy in the licence office. Apparently in Willam's case we are talking about the licence itself. Perhaps the "bond" is what we have for Thomas. If the application was incorrectly completed, there may be the same errors in the licence. Thomas's licence recites that he was under age and had his father's consent. Hannah is said to be "of the full age of 21 years." That could mean that she was 21, or that she was at least 21, and did not require parental consent (her father was deceased in the marriage announcement, but her mother was still alive after her death.) In other words, a person's actual age may not be in the application, only in the licence. My feeling is, that whatever the licence says, William was 36. For the purposes of my book, I am inclined to leave it at that, with perhaps a note. On the other hand, if the evidence is there, I should see it. It may help to get a researcher in the Kent area to advise of a few things. (Incidentally, the existence of a licence doesn't prove that the marriage took place. In the published list, one man applied for two licences well within 12 months, for different brides. A smooth talker?) Doug. From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Tue Mar 30 13:16:11 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:16:11 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Early History of Bobbing Court Message-ID: <201003301416.11436.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> I have just updated my local draft as regards Bobbing Court. Google already has what I have put up so far, with its errors. Having origins in Kent, we are lucky. In the 19th century, a man called Hasted wrote a comprehensive survey of Kent. While it was still being got ready for publication, a second edition was written by Ireland. It is available on line. Most of what follows is taken from it. In England, some legal rights can be enforced if they existed from "time immemorial," and legal memory begins in 1189, the first year of the reign of Richard I the Lionheart, who spent a lot of time at the Crusades. The Walt Disney version of Robin Hood puts him in the time of John's regency during Richard's absence, but Richard returns at the end and makes Robin an Earl. (What I thought amazing was that as soon as Richard took off his helmet and showed his face, they all recognized him and went down on one knee. Most unlikely!) Hasted too, could go back no further than Richard's time. According to him, the old Bobbing Court existed then (which is 2 centuries before my book says) although he spells it as one word. The manor was owned by the Savage family, originally the de Sauvages from France. A person's heir was usually his son or other male descendant, but property passing to daughters is not unknown. The last legal owner of the Boykett coat of arms was a woman. Among several sons, the eldest was the heir, but daughters inherited jointly. In about 1400 (the family Web page is a bit inexact) Bobbing Court was owned by Sir Arnold Savage. His son was also called Arnold, and Arnold's sister Eleanor was her brother's heir. She married Edward Clifford, of the line of the Barons Clifford of Chudleigh, and Bobbing Court passed to the Clifford family. In the 16th century Sir Conyers Clifford married Mary Southwell (1566-1603). Sir Conyers was her second husband. She survived him as well, and later married Sir Anthony St Leger (1539-1613.) Mary had some kind of life interest in Bobbing Court, but on her death, it seems to have passed to the Clifford boys, who sold it. Rosemary Fagan of New Zealand is descended on her mother's side from Thomas' daughter Caroline, and on her father's side from the St. Legers. She tells me that the purchasers were called Duke. By the 18th Century the owners were the Tyndall or Tyndale family, as shown in the Land Tax assessment that mentions William. I just like to think what somebody with Joan McEwing's drive would have found out, if today's resources had been available to her, especially the Internet. From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Tue Mar 30 20:07:00 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:07:00 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Early History of Bobbing Court In-Reply-To: <201003301416.11436.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> References: <201003301416.11436.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Message-ID: <201003302107.00250.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> I have just read through what Hasted has about Bobbing Court. He lists the patrons who had the right to nominate a vicar to St Bartholomew's Church, including Sir George Moore, who was Titus Oates' patron. There was also a list of owners. I was wrong in assuming that Mary Southwell had only a life interest. She was the owner, and kept Bobbing as her separate property while married to Sir Anthony St Leger. Her will gave it between her two sons by her previous marriage to Sir Conyers Clifford and her one son by Sir Anthony. They sold it to Sir Edward Duke of Cosington, Aylesford. A complete list of owners follows, down to Lt-Col. William Tyndale, the owner when the book was written, and the owner in 1796. Titles and where appropriate, armorial bearings are given. The URL is http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62958 Doug. On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 02:16:11 pm Doug Laidlaw wrote: > In the 16th century Sir Conyers Clifford married Mary Southwell > (1566-1603). Sir Conyers was her second husband. She survived him as > well, and later married Sir Anthony St Leger (1539-1613.) Mary had some > kind of life interest in Bobbing Court, but on her death, it seems to have > passed to the Clifford boys, who sold it. Rosemary Fagan of New Zealand > is descended on her mother's side from Thomas' daughter Caroline, and on > her father's side from the St. Legers. She tells me that the purchasers > were called Duke. > From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Wed Mar 31 16:29:19 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:29:19 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Enderby: Leicestershire or Lincolnshire. Message-ID: <201003311729.19721.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> The answer to which Enderby is meant is still unclear. - In favour of Leicestershire: Enderby in Leicestershire is a substantial town, and had an active Congregational Church back then (according to a reply on soc.genealogy. britain.) There is no one place in Lincolnshire called Enderby. There were three, and the same reply says that there is no historical evidence that any one of them ever had a Congregational Church. The biggest was Mavis Enderby, and a reference to Enderby without more, would probably mean that. Thomas' oath in support of his application for a marriage licence says Leicestershire, and Thomas was not the kind of person to be sloppy about such things, if his letters are any indication. The mis-spelling "batchelor" would not make his oath false; the other would. - In favour of Lincolnshire: The notice of the induction for Rev Bunn in Lincolnshire mentions that Thomas was "of Enderby" without qualification. Perhaps other Congregationalists would automatically know which was meant? The marriage announcement was among personal notices for the Diocese of Lincolnshire, not Leicestershire. But it called Thomas "Rev." which he wasn't. Why a Congregationalist marriage was published in such a journal seems odd. The publication contained theological papers; I don't know to what extent the C. of E. and the Nonconformists differed on doctrine. John Wesley maintained that he remained an Anglican. Doug. From laidlaws at hotkey.net.au Wed Mar 31 19:55:00 2010 From: laidlaws at hotkey.net.au (Doug Laidlaw) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:55:00 +1100 Subject: [Boykett-announce] Congregationalist - Joan McEwing knew! Message-ID: <201003312055.00700.laidlaws@hotkey.net.au> Just goes to show what is hidden in Joan's correspondence. In a letter to Allan Jenkins dated 7 Oct 1972, Joan writes that she had received no reply from the vicar at Sutton Vallence about her theory that there was a plaque there connecting the Boyketts with the Huguenots, although she had enclosed an English stamp to enable him to forward her letter to the correct church if she was writing to the wrong one. Then she continues: "I did explain in a p.s. that I had just learned (from Nancy Boykett) that the family may have been Congregationalists, and if so would he pass along my letter to the right one." Nancy was Ken Boykett's wife, who was about Joan's age, and whom Ken married in Melbourne. I would love to know what info she had. Didn't Joan expect the Vicar to do her detective work for her! Find out which church, C. of E. or Congregational, and forward the letter appropriately. Doug.